Lord save us from your Church! -- today's installment

[bigmacbear]

[T]oday's rigidly dogmatic Catholic Church has bred a generation of American Catholics many of whom, simply in order to be able to function in the real world, have had to learn to put oppressive theological dictates in their place – so much so that the very suggestion that their Church demands their absolute obedience (which of course it does) can be seen as "anti-Catholic"!
-- Bruce Bawer, Is America Anti-Catholic? [URL:http://www.brucebawer.com/rc.htm]

Yep, I think he's hit the nail on the head here. In a previous post I mentioned a seemingly contradictory doctrine of the Church that specifically allows for such dissent, and opined that it's essential for American Catholics to be able to do this because of the Church's disinclination to the notion of separation of church and state.

To be quite honest, the disinclination to separate church and state (or, in most cases, the inclination to force the two back together once separated) seems to be at the root of all the problems modern society has with religious fundamentalists of any persuasion, today particularly Muslim and to a lesser extent Christian. I discovered the essay quoted above after being steered to an essay dealing with fundamentalist Islam on the same site, Tolerating Intolerance: The Challenge of Fundamentalist Islam in Western Europe [URL:http://www.brucebawer.com/tolerating.htm]

Sometimes the intersection of Church and State is more than a stop light in downtown Rochester. It appears on the verge of being a threat to the Western way of life.

Comments

[ciddyguy.livejournal.com]

Very interesting article, even if originaly written in 2002. I've always felt that the Catholic church was way out of step with reality for years even though I'm not Catholic, but rather Episcopalian (Anglican).

I've heard of gays feeling tormented in coming out or their allegience to the Church and the fear of be ostracized from the church as a result.

And the mere fact that they worship the Pope is telling of whom they worship, let alone the saints.

[bigmacbear]

Yep. Although I was raised Catholic, I currently attend both RC and Episcopal services with Dignity-Integrity Rochester which serves both the RC and Episcopal GLBT community (Dignity being the RC side and Integrity the Episcopal side) in preference to a parish church. As a result I'm very torn between staying with the Catholic Church (as much as I do) and just saying "fuck it" and switching to Anglicanism.

At the back of my head I have this notion I'd be betraying my Irish-American heritage (both my mother's parents emigrated from Ireland, but my father's family has been in the US a couple of generations further back) by switching to Anglicanism, but it just makes more sense. Of course, the Anglican Communion as a whole has just as many problems with GLBT people, they're just not as doctrinaire about it.

BTW, Catholics aren't supposed to worship the Pope, merely to obey him. ;-)

On another note, I found your journal through a reply you gave to bassbehr (whom I met in Montreal at the GALA Festival). Shame he's deleted his journal. I added you to my friends list because Gary (gmjambear) and I are considering moving to Seattle. We each have a few friends in the area already but it's always good to meet more. Thanks for adding me back.

[ciddyguy.livejournal.com]

BTW, Catholics aren't supposed to worship the Pope, merely to obey him. ;-) Doesn't it boil down to one and the same??? LOL.

Anyway, I'm glad you added me. It's always fun being friended by others for whatever reason they find me interesting. :-)

I know the Anglican Communion has it's issues, especially in some sectors of the world such as Nigeria, with their trying to stave off both the Canadian and American arm of the Anglican communion for the recent decisions around gay marriage and of gay laymen in the church - especially as a Bishop of all things.

But you are right, it's not set in doctrine/dogma, but the more conservative side definatly has it's issues, which is sad and yet fine as they are excercising their mind(s).

One of my friends is fatherbear whom I know through church. He and his partner David are moving back to Canada (Barry is canadian by birth, David was born in SoCal, but his father is Candadian but also lived in Canada while growing up and has the card to prove it). Fatherbear is seeking to be ordained a minister within the Episcopal church of Canada which will be nice. They are a great couple btw.